Curse

Miyamoto Tzu · Jun 14, 2005, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by codemonkey

I believe its noted in the Prima Guide, and probably a good general concept: Rare/Gold items are typically going to be found on a leader type person and that person is usually found in a remote part of the area that may be hard to get at. And then there is only a random chance they'll drop it

I guess the idea being, you have to hunt around for it you'll pretty much have to kill everything on the map in order to find it and then that's only a "chance" of it occuring. Not sure if that's word of mouth or has any shred of truth to it, but the concept seems solid.

I'm sure that there has to be some level of alteration on that else a person could farm the same guy at the same place over and over to find gold weapons.

Just a thought.

CodeMonkey

Sure, this makes sense and follows a methodology similar to most RPG's but boss mobs very rarely drop anything of real value in GW. If you ask me every mob of a certain type has the same loot tables regardless of whether its a boss mob or otherwise...this is my experience to date with the game.

I find that more Rare/Gold items will drop with at least one other human player in the party.

The Risk vs. Reward ratio in GW is a bit skewed towards the Risk side atm. Rare items, when they drop, seldom seem to be something your character can use and oftentimes (especially in lower levels) the items suck.

If you could customize rods/wands and offhand items, things would be a little better, at least on the caster/healer side. I've yet to see a Gold Holy Rod and since customizing at the crafters negates the ability to resell any weapon, the good Holy Rods are usually taken out of circulation very quickly.

A way to un-customize a personalized weapon for resale purposes would be a very cool thing imho.

Laters,

Tzu

codemonkey · Jun 14, 2005, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miyamoto Tzu

Sure, this makes sense and follows a methodology similar to most RPG's but boss mobs very rarely drop anything of real value in GW. If you ask me every mob of a certain type has the same loot tables regardless of whether its a boss mob or otherwise...this is my experience to date with the game.

I find that more Rare/Gold items will drop with at least one other human player in the party.

The Risk vs. Reward ratio in GW is a bit skewed towards the Risk side atm. Rare items, when they drop, seldom seem to be something your character can use and oftentimes (especially in lower levels) the items suck.

If you could customize rods/wands and offhand items, things would be a little better, at least on the caster/healer side. I've yet to see a Gold Holy Rod and since customizing at the crafters negates the ability to resell any weapon, the good Holy Rods are usually taken out of circulation very quickly.

A way to un-customize a personalized weapon for resale purposes would be a very cool thing imho.

Laters,

Tzu

Although slightly off topic, I agree that a weapon customized to one person should be able to be re-customized to another. The added difficulty by the customizer (npc) could potentially add 20-30gp to the cost of the next customization, but it would be worth it to be able to re-sell used items.

I've only ever seen two gold items drop for me, and both were indeed by non-boss monsters. But in both cases it was out in the middle of nowhere (one was on the bonus mission for one of the Kryta missions).

I have also noticed that, yes, when I've been on adventures with 6 humans I've seen many more gold item drops (just never been for me) and many more purple item drops. My theory is that NPC's, as they do contribute to eating treasure, also contribute to eating gold items. Its a fact (or was) that NPC's get dropped items, you just dont' see it (because in the beta it used to piss people off to see items they could not have). So they're hidden and you never know what they have taken out of a battle. You could be adventuring all this time and had 5 gold items but your NPC's got them. In a human part you SEE the item...it just won't have your name on it..

CodeMonkey

ohsonofa · Jun 14, 2005, 07:11 AM // 07:11

i havent been able to get any drops at all for about 10 hours :O (no gold/weapons/items) zilch nada!

*deletes gw* lol

osfoxtrot · Jun 14, 2005, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Whatever happened to new game content? The new explorable areas etc they were going to add?

Like alot of people here, I purchased the game withing days of it coming out, purchased it for what it was. If I knew they would have pulled this junk I wouldnt have bothered.

aNet is on a crusade, slaughtering the accounts and gameplay of a thousand people to stop the botting of a handfull. A character ive spent over 40 hours on is worthless thanks to their inability to debug anything as well. This isnt anti farming, this restricts you from doing anything besides missions and quests - once you reach level 20 what is the point of playing any longer. No collector hunting, uw/fis material hunting, exploring or just trying to buy that next rune or a peice of elite armor. The drops are going to become rarer, the prices will go up even furthar; and the funniest thing of all is it doesnt affect the people using macros/bots that much. Ebay sellers will be as strong/stronger then ever because they killed all the monster drops, not the chest/barrel drops. Ive heard they already made a macro that just keeps opening chests/barrels, doesnt bother fighting anything.

Luckly I not only play it, I own a business and will likely be blacklisting the company, ive spent too much time with there customer service dept over this and a quite a few other issues, and ive come to the conclusion:
After you buy the game, they could give a **** about you.

Because its not a subscription service, and software is extremely hard to return they seem to have the opinion that ignoring everyone is more profitable then staffing a real customer service department.

Numa Pompilius · Jun 14, 2005, 10:23 AM // 10:23

1) Yeah, OK, drops have been nerfed. I spent all day yesterday mapping the desert, killing probably 100 hydras, 100 sand drakes, a couple of sand worms, a bunch of sand elementals, and god knows how many jade scarabs (I *hate* those) - and got quite a lot of gold, two staffs, a bow, a jade mandible, and a jade crest. That's it.
OK, I had 5 henchmen, so I only got 1/6th of the drops, but that's still a pitiful harvest. I don't really care, except it's basically impossible to get 5x of anything for the collectors in the area.

2) Botters and cheaters get exactly what they deserve: banned.
I applaud Anet for kicking botter and cheater ass.

ratatass · Jun 14, 2005, 02:58 PM // 14:58

I play all missions solo now due to a HORRIBLE connection. I will back in the US soon...My fourth and final char is now level 8 and I have yet to recieve a single rune drop. Is this cause I fall under the solo farming category since I HAVE to solo since I lag so bad I can't join a group ? If so - not fair.

My level 20 Ranger/Mo also is forced to solo for the same reason. No drops there either. I almost finished Elonas Reach with henchies with him but the lag killed me on time - so timed out..he he but it was fun.

So if you solo - no runes ?

Olav

Kuku Monk · Jun 14, 2005, 03:06 PM // 15:06

I solo as well, for the sheer enjoyment and challenge of it. I never get any drops valued over like 20 gold. Pretty crappy if you ask me. Will it deter me from enjoying the game the way I want to play it, no.

Rellok · Jun 14, 2005, 03:15 PM // 15:15

I have 2 characters, level 9 and level 10. I have recieved no runes, or unlockable item upgrades on either character. I am not that far along (piken square) but I figure it's just a random thing for me.

Matt

codemonkey · Jun 14, 2005, 03:18 PM // 15:18

I've found that everything before piken square (or the charr) tends to be pretty much low level magic items (dmg+10%, enchantments last 10% longer, etc.)

Exception being a few missions like Surmia where I've gotten a few neat items, but mainly I'm excited just getting charr hide drops

CodeMonkey

DarkAynjil · Jun 14, 2005, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:
Originally Posted by codemonkey
May I ask how they nerfed all farming? The bullet I read is:

"...and other highly repetitive forms of gold and item farming"

Thus perhaps what that means (to me) is that areas that dropped lots of gold/items but requires little to no effort have been reduced. That seems to me to be more game balancing then anything. Its easier to learn from watching how players react to certain areas then it is to try to "think out" what is best for each creature, area, quest.

A developer can only make a fair assessment based on a white box closed door testing using an internal test group, but a much better assessment after watching "real world" people utilize the same areas, creatures, and quests.

You use the word "all farming" as though there was a calculated attack to destroy all fun within the gaming environment (for you). Please cite examples and algorithmic changes that you've noticed and perhaps I'll agree. Otherwise I'll just assume you only took one subset of things that you may have noticed (although much is "randomized") and use big keywords like "all" to sound more drastic then things really are...

Thanks,

CodeMonkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

I agreed with your post (except for one letter

)

If you are going to play English teacher, you should correct ALL of his grammatical errors, not just the one that you know. (Then vs. Than, for example...) Don't be a jerk.

Creston · Jun 14, 2005, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miyamoto Tzu

Sure, this makes sense and follows a methodology similar to most RPG's but boss mobs very rarely drop anything of real value in GW. If you ask me every mob of a certain type has the same loot tables regardless of whether its a boss mob or otherwise...this is my experience to date with the game.

Tzu

According to the strategy guide, a boss drops loot according to his race / level, plus 4. Ie, if he's a level 20 Grawl boss, he'd drop loot as a level 24 (which is the highest level in the loot table).

Obviously, this has probably already been completely overhauled, making that part of the guide totally useless, since bosses now drop nothing, as far as I can tell. (I'm serious, I've yet to see a boss actually DROP an item.)

Creston

Creston · Jun 14, 2005, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by codemonkey

I have also noticed that, yes, when I've been on adventures with 6 humans I've seen many more gold item drops (just never been for me) and many more purple item drops. My theory is that NPC's, as they do contribute to eating treasure, also contribute to eating gold items. Its a fact (or was) that NPC's get dropped items, you just dont' see it (because in the beta it used to piss people off to see items they could not have). So they're hidden and you never know what they have taken out of a battle. You could be adventuring all this time and had 5 gold items but your NPC's got them. In a human part you SEE the item...it just won't have your name on it..

CodeMonkey

This has always been the case, and that hasn't changed. Just the total amount of loot has changed. (either that, or the NPCs now get double share). In either case, if playing with henchies or solo now kills your loot more than if you are playing with people, that's just retarded.
Edited : My sentence was messed up. Oops.

Creston

osfoxtrot · Jun 14, 2005, 07:58 PM // 19:58

ALL does mean all.

And of the previous post praising Anet, just becuase they post it on there website doesnt mean it actually works. Mind telling me how they detect a macro? Macros are client side only, and since they already developed a way around the latest patch killing monster drops, Anet has ruined the gameplay at the cost of every1 and has only stopped the botters that were doing it causually, not the ones that actually do it for money.

Note: I dont bot or defend botting - Anet just has there priorities skewed.

The best way to avoid casual botting is to not make the game a grind. Then people feel there isnt a need to bother. The best way to avoid profit botting is through ebays VERO program. Screwing up the game for 99% of people to stop the botting 1% isnt the answer.

And as for the drops, when I mean everything stopped that is in fact true. I no longer even get gold coins off of monsters or simple crap like char carvings. Logging in 12 hours later? same status. Soloing a mission? same. Hunting with a full party of npcs? Same. This is all over the map as well, not a single monster dropping anything, anywhere, anytime.

None, Zero, Nada, Nothing
-From monsters

Chests, which mostly drop gold coins anyway are unaffected and the macro users just switched over to them.

Volarian · Jun 14, 2005, 08:23 PM // 20:23

I think the major problem I've seen...is that when you get a RARE drop, you should be guaranteed that it salvages into something (post nerf)....I mean can you imagine the feeling being a Non-Farming type player who sees only his 3rd rare thru 20lvls of playing (and I thoroughly mapped)...turn into INGOTS!!!!!

grrrrrrrr

codemonkey · Jun 14, 2005, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by osfoxtrot

ALL does mean all.

The best way to avoid casual botting is to not make the game a grind.

This is left up to the user to decide what they consider "a grind." Thus your reasoning to avoid botting does not hold up to everyone standards. For example, you can make it such that everything drops a huge portion of equipment or money... and what does that solve? In your mind it may remove "the grind" of finding clutch items, where in another persons mind this may just mean they can totally ramp up there inventory and start weeding out the crap stuff.

Imagine now, a bot that would find "great" loot instead of just "good" loot. Dropping all silly major runes, and only keeping superiors. And imagine the money you can make now!

You assume people use bots because the games too tough to get the stuff for yourself, however _I_ believe people do it because of greed and the ease of doing so. If you can bot yourself 10 runes and 5,000gp and we fix it so its "not a grind" now you can bot yourself 20 runes and 10,000gp. Why should one stop using macro's/bots/etc. when they can now double they're profit?

CodeMonkey

codemonkey · Jun 14, 2005, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAynjil

If you are going to play English teacher, you should correct ALL of his grammatical errors, not just the one that you know. (Then vs. Than, for example...) Don't be a jerk.

Lets face it, Microsoft Word is my friend. All my software spec's are written in proper english defined by microsoft grammer check.. message boards are an exception. A place where I can be unruly with spelling errors, typeo's, bad word order, and thank god for passive voice!

Then and Than I shall not, right I won't do. Yes?

CodeMonkey

Algren Cole · Jun 14, 2005, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volarian

I think the major problem I've seen...is that when you get a RARE drop, you should be guaranteed that it salvages into something (post nerf)....I mean can you imagine the feeling being a Non-Farming type player who sees only his 3rd rare thru 20lvls of playing (and I thoroughly mapped)...turn into INGOTS!!!!!

grrrrrrrr

honestly....rare's shouldn't always salvage into something usefull. I understand it's a game....but they've incorporated so many aspects of life as is...and life isn't perfect. Rares should salvage into something usefull more often than not, but there should still be that chance that it'll be nothing but ingots.

They need to change it back to the way it was...as is the game has gotten dreadfully painful to play and I highly doubt I'll be finishing my character to lvl20. Which of course doesn't hurt ArenaNet because they got my $50...but I won't be refering their game or their company to anybody I know and I won't be purchasing anything else they release.....and while I'm only one person, I'm sure there are alot of other players who are about to do the same thing.

Farming is an aspect of MMORPGs that you just simply can't get rid of. Bots aren't going to go away...guess what ArenaNET the programmers writing the bots are two steps ahead of you. They anticipate your reactions and design plans before you impliment them...it's how they make money...it's how they cheat...and it's not going to stop. It would be closely akin to AOL trying to stop people from using their service for free....they're never going to do it.

osfoxtrot · Jun 14, 2005, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Making the game a grind has little to do with drop quality. Adding runes and gold items everywhere isnt going to solve any problems, thats just wishes by people who dont want to/dont enjoy playing the game. Rare items are intended to be rare. Once you kill every drop, even the poor "vanilla" items and gold coin drops, you have no source of income anymore - yes all that white crap can get sold to npcs and buy the nicer stuff your looking for.

However, trying to get a collectors item for instance, you have one group of sand giants to kill and you need 5 massive jawbones. They drop a massive jawbone about 1/20 times, and the drops completely stop cold after you kill 10. You do the math.

In a game that requires you to kill 10,000 of something to get ahead, you see half of that community start to use bots, because only 1/1,000 people is a complete bum and has the time to play the game for 40 hours a week for three months straight... classic example is ragna.
The more tedious you make the game the more people are convinced they dont have the time to get ahead, and resort to there computer wasting its life instead.

Look at the way guild wars is made, do you honestly think more then 1/100 people bot the game? The only thing that is workable is macros, and i dont think your average joe can just pull one out of his ass.

Killing all drops has a worse negative effect then ignoring the 1/100 botters. Now the botter has to download a new macro to open chests (ahmegod 10 minutes out of his life) while the other 99/100 has to play the game 10...20....50 times as long to get the same collectors item they could have gotten a week ago; or to get fissure armor, etc.

Yes botters are bad; but look at the whole ******* picture.

hydrak · Jun 14, 2005, 09:36 PM // 21:36

I play the game PvE normally, and I've noticed that drops are actually a little better after the patch. Now if you farm a single place and kill the same monsters over and over in a short period of time, then the patch will nerf your drops to nothing.

So PvE is better after the patch. Only farmers are crying about it.

osfoxtrot · Jun 14, 2005, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Define "collectors"
Define "fissure armor"

Get past level 20 and the missions and tell me that trying to obtain collectors items, which were implemented by aNet is bad; after all thats "highly repetitive farming" and i must be getting rich off of salvage items!

I dont farm, I do enjoy finding collectors items and seeing what each one does, esp the ones around the desert. Once you finish the last missions tell me what you plan to do from there..delete the game?

There isnt going to be a single person able to make a full set of fissure armor now either, it would take *Years*

You can no longer farm uw or fissure monsters for the materials to make the armor, so just look at the pretty pictures and wonder what it looks like.